+
+
.. caught between
warmongers
n moneylusters ..
and they invite you
into their deadly game ..
+
the farce of choice;
tweedleLiblaw
v
tweedleLablaw
political party duopoly;
and both
tweedleLiblaw
v
tweedleLablaw
political party duopoly;
and both
are so easily convinced
by the money lusters
n the warmongers ..
by the money lusters
n the warmongers ..
+
.. "the road to hell
is paved with
good intentions" ..
ha !
that is so crap a slogan
and untrue ..
firstly,
there is no tortuous eternal hell;
secondly,
loving one another
is THE good intention .....
is paved with
good intentions" ..
ha !
that is so crap a slogan
and untrue ..
firstly,
there is no tortuous eternal hell;
secondly,
loving one another
is THE good intention .....
+
+
.. if there was
a tortuous eternal hell,
(ha ! .. but there's not)
it would be reserved
for the religious
and the elite
who do such a pathetic job
explaining to us
and trying to convince us
who
Theoites
is .....
a tortuous eternal hell,
(ha ! .. but there's not)
it would be reserved
for the religious
and the elite
who do such a pathetic job
explaining to us
and trying to convince us
who
Theoites
is .....
+
.. haters gonna hate
dividers gonna divide
bullies gonna bully
money lusters gonna lust;
.. if they can't find justification
in their religious texts,
they'll find it elsewhere ..
bringing their hell to earth ..
dividers gonna divide
bullies gonna bully
money lusters gonna lust;
.. if they can't find justification
in their religious texts,
they'll find it elsewhere ..
bringing their hell to earth ..
+
.. "your sins have separated you
from Theos"..
ok,
before you become
a recluse in penance,
or worse,
appoint yourself morals moderator;
the quote is about human lostness;
dealing with goodandevil ..
it unnerves us ..
n we hide in busy
self-righteousness ..
i.e. lostness ..
Theos isn't separated from you;
He still wants to chat with you ;
in the pleasantness
of the evening .....
from Theos"..
ok,
before you become
a recluse in penance,
or worse,
appoint yourself morals moderator;
the quote is about human lostness;
dealing with goodandevil ..
it unnerves us ..
n we hide in busy
self-righteousness ..
i.e. lostness ..
Theos isn't separated from you;
He still wants to chat with you ;
in the pleasantness
of the evening .....
+
..... Iesous (son of man)
is
Theoites in Anthropos
so
Anthropos
is
secure and happy
In Theoites .....
again .....
is
Theoites in Anthropos
so
Anthropos
is
secure and happy
In Theoites .....
again .....
+
.. *life abundantly*
ain't waiting
for ur god
2 come down
2 wreak havoc
n so,
somehow
fix what's been
holding u back
in ur self-justified life ..
..... it's loving one another
as Iesous loves all .....
ain't waiting
for ur god
2 come down
2 wreak havoc
n so,
somehow
fix what's been
holding u back
in ur self-justified life ..
..... it's loving one another
as Iesous loves all .....
+
.. if we haven't sourced our
"fiery judgement",
waiting game
back to 70AD;
it's time for a re-study, ay .....
Zion is within us;
anthropos
IS in
Theoites
now .....
"fiery judgement",
waiting game
back to 70AD;
it's time for a re-study, ay .....
Zion is within us;
anthropos
IS in
Theoites
now .....
+
.. it's not OUR "faith"
that's important
in our justification;
we wouldn't get there !!
thank goodness,
Iesous
has faith in us,
and faithfulness for us .....
(R3R5G2)
faith,
not of yourselves.
that's important
in our justification;
we wouldn't get there !!
thank goodness,
Iesous
has faith in us,
and faithfulness for us .....
(R3R5G2)
faith,
not of yourselves.
+
..... Iesous dissolved
every definition
of division .....
In him we are
at one
and at peace
with everyone .....
(E2)
so,
if one gets a kick out of division,
then one is in religion,
and not in Theoites;
for one's health,
leave religion
and go after peace .....
every definition
of division .....
In him we are
at one
and at peace
with everyone .....
(E2)
so,
if one gets a kick out of division,
then one is in religion,
and not in Theoites;
for one's health,
leave religion
and go after peace .....
+
.. superstition is a mental
workshop for
a defeated diablos ..
workshop for
a defeated diablos ..
+
.. religious evangelist
be like :
"join up to my better process,
then, you will be accepted" ..
..... Iesous
(word of Theoites)
be like :
You ALL OK by Me .....
be like :
"join up to my better process,
then, you will be accepted" ..
..... Iesous
(word of Theoites)
be like :
You ALL OK by Me .....
+
..... party time with prodigal dad .....
even when you are in, or out,
of a religious group
because
the ekklesia (church),
defined :
are any of our spiritual siblings
who understand
the rescue,
the re-enlivening,
the release
in
Iesous .....
.... if i grouped
it would be like
Lydia's group by the river,
praying, singing,
dancing, feasting
assisting if necessary;
all, outflowing from Love .....
.. without stipendiary pre-eminence
and costly overheads ..
even when you are in, or out,
of a religious group
because
the ekklesia (church),
defined :
are any of our spiritual siblings
who understand
the rescue,
the re-enlivening,
the release
in
Iesous .....
.... if i grouped
it would be like
Lydia's group by the river,
praying, singing,
dancing, feasting
assisting if necessary;
all, outflowing from Love .....
.. without stipendiary pre-eminence
and costly overheads ..
+
back slapping "heroic" pollies
n
moneylusting bankers
n
warmonger contractors
n
vain glorious army/navy/airforce
=
permanent war
vote to break the vicious cycle
vote compassion .....
+
.... that's another consequence
n subsequent to voting in people
who profit from bombing the shit
out of nations
with whom we should have
no foreign entanglements.
No matter what their current
justification theory is ..
n subsequent to voting in people
who profit from bombing the shit
out of nations
with whom we should have
no foreign entanglements.
No matter what their current
justification theory is ..
+
[ .. insert relevant adjective here .. ]
signs/slogans they con
You into thinking you’re the one
That can do what’s never been done
That can win what’s never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.
....
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in
But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it’s alright, Ma, if I can’t please him ..
....
its-alright-ma-im-only-bleeding (1965)
B.Dylan
signs/slogans they con
You into thinking you’re the one
That can do what’s never been done
That can win what’s never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.
....
While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in
But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it’s alright, Ma, if I can’t please him ..
....
its-alright-ma-im-only-bleeding (1965)
B.Dylan
+
Jesus Christ remains the most current, relevant and pivotal message of all time.
He is the language of God.
He is the Word that was from the beginning face to face with God,
nothing in him distracts from God;
he holds all things together for ever;
the Father of mankind has us all wrapped up in him.
The sum total of philosophical thought and contemplation could never match or replace him.
He is beyond the principle of the promise,
The sum total of philosophical thought and contemplation could never match or replace him.
He is beyond the principle of the promise,
and gives personality and person to every detail of the prophetic word.
He is the very one in whom all things exist.
He completes mankind’s every expectation.
-F. DuToit
+
Do you know that the Lord's Prayer is a fulfilled prayer?
It was fulfilled in AD70.
The will is done.
The kingdom is here.
The bread is given.
The devil is destroyed.
It was fulfilled in AD70.
The will is done.
The kingdom is here.
The bread is given.
The devil is destroyed.
- Simon Yap
+
.... is there a link between
rhodes scholarship
& our poor leadership ....
rhodes scholarship
& our poor leadership ....
+
I'm sorta talkin about original, creative leadership
that loosens us from our dependancy
on the dictates of
warmonger economics ....
on the dictates of
warmonger economics ....
+
Until this moment God remained invisible to man;
now the authentic, incarnate begotten son,
the blueprint of man’s design who represents the innermost being of God,
the son who is in the bosom of the father,
brings him into full view!
He is the official authority qualified to announce God!
He is our guide who accurately declares and interprets the invisible God within us.
-John 1:18 Mirror bible
+
When we discuss topics such as Universalism,
the common defense on the fundamentalist front is to proof text using [largely] the Apostle Paul.
The all too familiar approach is to jump mid stream into Romans and act as though
Paul is somehow mystically speaking to us today.
He's not.
What we see in Paul, and especially in Romans is not a system of who's in and who's out
He's not.
What we see in Paul, and especially in Romans is not a system of who's in and who's out
but rather a kingdom that must be stewarded.
In that respect then, the "Kingdom of God" is not a place people can get "in" or be kicked "out" of.
It is rather a system of participation whereby we steward the kingdom
Jesus has revealed-and his revelation is that it is "within".
This then is why we see Paul wrestling with this notion that the kingdom is within and not a place to attain.
This then is why we see Paul wrestling with this notion that the kingdom is within and not a place to attain.
To Saul, the kingdom had been about pursuing it and obtaining it
viz. "violent men take it by force",
but to Paul the kingdom became about one thing -
the life of Christ within.
In that respect then, "inheriting the kingdom" is synonymous with "work out your salvation"
as both refer to something living within rather than something to be grasped from the outside.
"Inheritance" speaks of a familial inclusion and "working out" speaks of an internalized wrestling.
Since Paul appears to have taken Jesus at his word that the kingdom is within -
Since Paul appears to have taken Jesus at his word that the kingdom is within -
even going so far as to say "Christ is all, and is in all" -
it becomes clear that, at least within a Christological framework,
Paul is a universalist (Christ has bound "all" in himself).
What happens to Paul in the hands of either the free-will proponent or the Calvinist
What happens to Paul in the hands of either the free-will proponent or the Calvinist
is the negation of that which held Paul captive - namely,
the complete success of Jesus of Nazareth over death, hell, hades, sin,
and anything that could have kept us as outcasts under the law.
Paul is not concerned with who will "go to heaven" or "avoid hell"
but rather that his audience have a vision of the success of Jesus
that has forever transcended all lines of law, holiness, racial, sexual and political borders.
To put it lightly, Paul saw such a vision of the success of Christ,
he not only saw all as included,
he wrote the line "all things are now lawful for me (however they might not be beneficial)".
Interesting to note, beneficence does not negate or bolster "all things are lawful for me".
It is simply Paul's personal reminder.
But the fact remains, all things are now lawful.
In that respect then, Paul has given us an inkling of his level of universalistic understanding.
In that respect then, Paul has given us an inkling of his level of universalistic understanding.
That Jesus not only includes all people regardless of personal distinction,
but that he transcends all distinctions once and for all,
even - or rather especially - those distinctions that declared people "unclean".
And herein lies the crux of Paul's argument.
And herein lies the crux of Paul's argument.
If Jesus has included all,
and made sure that no thing can ever call us "outsiders" again,
there is no alternative but the radical inclusion of all
by the father Jesus claims to have revealed.
In other words, if Jesus really is the full revelation of God,
then Paul has no choice but to believe in a God
of irrepressible grace,
unending love,
and no longer cling to the God of eschatological exclusion and incessant temper tantrums.
To summarize,
To summarize,
to Paul, Jesus was not only the death of death,
but he was also the death of "god",
and specifically a god who excluded any from his eternal plan to make all things "good".
-Caleb Miller
+
..... mind,
it's feast, dance, sing, enjoy .....
it's feast, dance, sing, enjoy .....
after all,
this is way of our
prodigious dad .....
+
..... Iesous' parables .....
are hidden (from the religious "elite")
teaching narratives;
they aren't rote learning icons;
are hidden (from the religious "elite")
teaching narratives;
they aren't rote learning icons;
..... parables require thought;
from your thinking,
Pneuma thoughts occur,
that centre on
His faithfulness
to all .....
+
.. tell me when
you've found a "church"
that is a joy, peace, love, grace,
family of siblings
(=eklesia)
without the "knows better"
hierarchy of
teachers,
"fathers",
& scary-scaredy uncle/aunty types ....
you've found a "church"
that is a joy, peace, love, grace,
family of siblings
(=eklesia)
without the "knows better"
hierarchy of
teachers,
"fathers",
& scary-scaredy uncle/aunty types ....
ha !
+
.... kátharsis
only possible through
..... charis .....
(the cleansing purge
of emotional tensions
by experiencing
His Unconditional Love .....
.. tortuous hell believing religionists,
don't "get" this ..
only possible through
..... charis .....
(the cleansing purge
of emotional tensions
by experiencing
His Unconditional Love .....
.. tortuous hell believing religionists,
don't "get" this ..
+
..... John writing from Patmos
"your partner in the tribulation";
this Revelation
is contemporaneous
with the "this generation"
who experience 70AD;
the fiery destruction
of Jerusalem by Nero "the Beast";
the end of the age
of the stone Temple ..
..... the very world apparent move
into
the Age of Charis;
the Temple of all flesh;
the New Jerusalem .....
"your partner in the tribulation";
this Revelation
is contemporaneous
with the "this generation"
who experience 70AD;
the fiery destruction
of Jerusalem by Nero "the Beast";
the end of the age
of the stone Temple ..
..... the very world apparent move
into
the Age of Charis;
the Temple of all flesh;
the New Jerusalem .....
+
.. the cage
and prison
in one's mind
IS
broken down
when one realises
one
IS
loved,
enjoyed,
valued .....
.. NEVER
hated, judged or ostracised ..
..... by our
eternal Dad .....
and prison
in one's mind
IS
broken down
when one realises
one
IS
loved,
enjoyed,
valued .....
.. NEVER
hated, judged or ostracised ..
..... by our
eternal Dad .....
+
.. television
skews
human relation ..
+
.. pride and prejudice
make airheads
of us all ..
make airheads
of us all ..
+
Prostitute and pagans…
The mothers of Jesus!
More shameless shocking Grace from father!
Why Lord?!
Why!
Why did you deliberately single out three
The mothers of Jesus!
More shameless shocking Grace from father!
Why Lord?!
Why!
Why did you deliberately single out three
immoral – Unfit – women…
Tamar deceived Judah her father-in-law into sleeping with her as a prostitute…
Tamar deceived Judah her father-in-law into sleeping with her as a prostitute…
And through this sexual act came Jesus eventually…
Jesus the lion of the tribe of Judah Judah Judah!
Then Ruth ... Pagan…
Then Ruth ... Pagan…
Became a mother of Jesus through Boaz ...
Pagan blood!
Adulterous blood!
Flowed through the veins of Jesus is the saviour of the world!
Finally Bathsheba… An adulteress etc…
Why… Did you father,
Pagan blood!
Adulterous blood!
Flowed through the veins of Jesus is the saviour of the world!
Finally Bathsheba… An adulteress etc…
Why… Did you father,
only see fit to inspire Matthew to only list these three women
in his famous family tree in Matthew one?
Why did you skip all the virtuous women of Israel
Why did you skip all the virtuous women of Israel
and zero in early on troubled women?
Because God's grace is
Because God's grace is
shameless…
It gets in our face …
Oh shameless Grace
It gets in our face …
Oh shameless Grace
how sweet the sound!
-Santo Calarco
+
..... sweet reflection .....
..... has made of
one blood,
all ethnos (races)
of anthropos (humans),
for to dwell
on all the face
of the earth.
..... and
Theos
dwells in
anthropos .....
(Paul)
..... has made of
one blood,
all ethnos (races)
of anthropos (humans),
for to dwell
on all the face
of the earth.
..... and
Theos
dwells in
anthropos .....
(Paul)
+
.... Bring a gift of
laughter.
Sing yourselves into
His presence ....
(Ps.100)
.. so, so, O.T.;
"bringing,
so as to go in,
occasionally;
that is,
from time to time" ..
..... Permanent Presence .....
now,
in all .....
..... still,
laugh, dance, sing,
and bring out,
the Joy
who is within you .....
laughter.
Sing yourselves into
His presence ....
(Ps.100)
.. so, so, O.T.;
"bringing,
so as to go in,
occasionally;
that is,
from time to time" ..
..... Permanent Presence .....
now,
in all .....
..... still,
laugh, dance, sing,
and bring out,
the Joy
who is within you .....
+
..... This
is eternal life :
to know truly
(to relate intimately with)
Theoites .....
(J3)
.. anthropos
got messed up
desiring to judge evil;
so rejecting LIFE ..
is eternal life :
to know truly
(to relate intimately with)
Theoites .....
(J3)
.. anthropos
got messed up
desiring to judge evil;
so rejecting LIFE ..
+
..... better silence,
than violence .....
.... as a lamb
with the shearer ....
than violence .....
.... as a lamb
with the shearer ....
+
.. you have become estranged
from Christos,
you who attempt to be justified by
the law of moses+angels;
that is falling from grace.
(G5)
.. of course that has
ramifications
for a fulfilling earthlife.
from Christos,
you who attempt to be justified by
the law of moses+angels;
that is falling from grace.
(G5)
.. of course that has
ramifications
for a fulfilling earthlife.
+
.. the law of moses+angels
reveals
what happened to man
in Adam..
..... Charis
reveals
what happened to the same man
in Christos .....
(R3)
reveals
what happened to man
in Adam..
..... Charis
reveals
what happened to the same man
in Christos .....
(R3)
+
... John baptist;
last n greatest O.T. prophet;
his fruit to demonstrate
metanoia
included:
share your wealth;
keep your business uncorrupt;
soldiers stop violent standovers ..
..... the least in
"love one another" N.T.
is greater than
John the baptist ....
last n greatest O.T. prophet;
his fruit to demonstrate
metanoia
included:
share your wealth;
keep your business uncorrupt;
soldiers stop violent standovers ..
..... the least in
"love one another" N.T.
is greater than
John the baptist ....
+
.. you are inexcusable,
o anthropos
who judges,
for where,
you separate another,
you [actually] bring
yourself to condemnation"..
o anthropos
who judges,
for where,
you separate another,
you [actually] bring
yourself to condemnation"..
.... this is Paul's conclusion to the
list of "sins" in R1 ..
.. the one that gets the most focus
is the suggestion
of homosexuality;
but there are others
that if one started keeping score,
would put one another
under
law n condemnation ..
so forget it ..
it's not our place
to judge ..
..... only to enjoy
charis ....
+
.... "remnant" ....
refers to the few
in old Judea/Israel
who understood charis;
just as the "144000" is ....
they believe the prophecy
about the end of the age
of law n stone temple;
they get out of Jerusalem
before the fiery destruction
in 70AD .....
refers to the few
in old Judea/Israel
who understood charis;
just as the "144000" is ....
they believe the prophecy
about the end of the age
of law n stone temple;
they get out of Jerusalem
before the fiery destruction
in 70AD .....
+
.. simultaneously
hilarious n scary,
when the religious do
cop, prosecutor, sentencer,
based on their
superior gnosis
of the law of moses ..
hilarious n scary,
when the religious do
cop, prosecutor, sentencer,
based on their
superior gnosis
of the law of moses ..
that law is superceded
by the "law" of
love one another
as I have loved you .....
+
..... until the time
of restoration
of ALL ..... (A3)
.. tortuous hell believers
don't "get" this ..
..... put another way,
it's global grace;
it's universal
rescue, re-enlivening, release .....
of restoration
of ALL ..... (A3)
.. tortuous hell believers
don't "get" this ..
..... put another way,
it's global grace;
it's universal
rescue, re-enlivening, release .....
+
.... we get more
than a patriarch,
a mystic, a priest,
a judge, a king;
we have the Basileus,
a brother,
than a patriarch,
a mystic, a priest,
a judge, a king;
we have the Basileus,
a brother,
upon whom,
we all walk .....
we all walk .....
+
+
Stop raising an end time army for God
and start cultivating heaven on earth
in the lives of men, families and nations of the world.
The former is a misconception of the kingdom of God.
-Simeon Edigbe
+
I don’t believe the axiom “A family that prays together stays together.”
As if prayer is some sort of magic wand.
The divorce rate among Christians is higher than the national average.
I think a better axiom might be: “A family that is determined to do their personal work in addressing their own pathologies and dysfunctional patterns, and who are together committed to learning and practicing healthy relationships with each other and open to seeking professional support, counseling or therapy if necessary... has a real shot at staying together.” Likewise, reading the Bible isn’t going to solve clinical depression, eating disorders, bipolar disorder, etc., but the proper mental health services and treatments and other holistic approaches can help in addressing and managing these.
-Jim Palmer
+
+
.... sorry about this long section;
i need to read it, later ....
Jonathan Welton answering some scaremongering from Barry Bennett :
BARRY: Preterism is the false belief that most if not all Bible prophecy concerning the end of the age and the coming of Christ was fulfilled in AD 70 during the destruction of Jerusalem. Preterists rely heavily on a symbolic interpretation of scripture because a literal interpretation easily destroys their philosophy. The motivations behind preterism are varied but can include a belief that there is no everlasting hell, no coming ‘birth pangs’ in the earth, no tribulation, and that the Kingdom of God is already on the earth and things are getting better, not worse. Preterism also considers Israel as a non-player in future prophetic events.
JONATHAN: This is mostly accurate, minus the views on hell among which there is NO consensus for preterists. This is possibly an attempt to link preterism and universalism, in which there is NO link, but linking two scary things together seems a lot more scary.
BARRY: For those being led astray by Preterism please consider the following:
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. (Mt. 24:9) This is a reference to the end times in which Christians will be persecuted and hated by ALL nations for His Name sake. This did not happen in AD 70. The destruction of Jerusalem was not a persecution of Christians.
JONATHAN: From 30-70AD The Jewish Temple leaders persecuted the early church, including the Apostle Paul before he was saved. Also reading the original translation of Mt. 24:9, “You will be hated by all ETHNOS.” Which is to say, all nationalities or all races. That definitely did happen in the first century.
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. (Mt. 24:9) This is a reference to the end times in which Christians will be persecuted and hated by ALL nations for His Name sake. This did not happen in AD 70. The destruction of Jerusalem was not a persecution of Christians.
JONATHAN: From 30-70AD The Jewish Temple leaders persecuted the early church, including the Apostle Paul before he was saved. Also reading the original translation of Mt. 24:9, “You will be hated by all ETHNOS.” Which is to say, all nationalities or all races. That definitely did happen in the first century.
BARRY: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Mt. 24:14) The gospel still has not been preached in all the world. There remain numerous people groups in the earth who have not been reached with the gospel. There were certainly people groups around the world at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem that had not be reached with the gospel.
JONATHAN: The root word oikoumene, used for “world” in this passage, actually means “inhabited or civilized world,” not world as in global planet earth (that would be the Greek word kosmos).This is the same Greek word used in Luke 2:1: “Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth.” (Oikoumene)
The apostle Paul used this same word later to confirm four times that the gospel had reached the whole civilized world as Jesus predicted (see Rom. 1:8; 10:18; Col 1:5–6,23).
As Philip Doddridge wrote in 1807:
“It appears, from the most credible records, that the gospel was preached in Idumea, Syria, and Mesopotamia, by Jude; in Egypt, Marmorica, Mauritania, and other parts of Africa, by Mark, Simon, and Jude; in Ethiopia, by Candace’s Eunuch and Mattias; in Pontus, Galatia, and the neighboring parts of Asia, by Peter; in territories of the seven Asiatic churches, by John; in Parthia, by Matthew; in Scythia, by Philip and Andrew; in the northern and western parts of Asia, by Bartholomew; in Persia, by Simon and Jude; in Media, Carmania, and several eastern parts, by Thomas; through the vast tract from Jerusalem round about to Illyricum, by Paul, as also in Italy, and probably in Spain, Gaul, and Britain; in most of which places Christian churches were planted, in less than thirty years after the death of Christ, which was before the destruction of Jerusalem.”
Jesus was saying that the gospel would be preached throughout the Roman Empire before He would come in judgment upon Jerusalem and the Temple. He was right. This has been fulfilled, and it has no further fulfillment in our future. We are not waiting for every person to hear the gospel so that the rapture can suddenly take place.
JONATHAN: The root word oikoumene, used for “world” in this passage, actually means “inhabited or civilized world,” not world as in global planet earth (that would be the Greek word kosmos).This is the same Greek word used in Luke 2:1: “Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth.” (Oikoumene)
The apostle Paul used this same word later to confirm four times that the gospel had reached the whole civilized world as Jesus predicted (see Rom. 1:8; 10:18; Col 1:5–6,23).
As Philip Doddridge wrote in 1807:
“It appears, from the most credible records, that the gospel was preached in Idumea, Syria, and Mesopotamia, by Jude; in Egypt, Marmorica, Mauritania, and other parts of Africa, by Mark, Simon, and Jude; in Ethiopia, by Candace’s Eunuch and Mattias; in Pontus, Galatia, and the neighboring parts of Asia, by Peter; in territories of the seven Asiatic churches, by John; in Parthia, by Matthew; in Scythia, by Philip and Andrew; in the northern and western parts of Asia, by Bartholomew; in Persia, by Simon and Jude; in Media, Carmania, and several eastern parts, by Thomas; through the vast tract from Jerusalem round about to Illyricum, by Paul, as also in Italy, and probably in Spain, Gaul, and Britain; in most of which places Christian churches were planted, in less than thirty years after the death of Christ, which was before the destruction of Jerusalem.”
Jesus was saying that the gospel would be preached throughout the Roman Empire before He would come in judgment upon Jerusalem and the Temple. He was right. This has been fulfilled, and it has no further fulfillment in our future. We are not waiting for every person to hear the gospel so that the rapture can suddenly take place.
BARRY: And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. (Mt. 24:22) The ‘days’ referred to cannot be describing the events of AD 70. The destruction of Jerusalem was a localized event in which over 1 million Jews were killed. All flesh was not in danger of being wiped out.
JONATHAN: I am not sure why the inadequate KJV translation of this verse is being used here except that it sounds more “end of the worldish” to say “no flesh would be saved..” Modern accurate translations read “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive..” Yes, if the Romans hadn’t stopped killing at the point of having 93,000 Jewish prisoners left, then they would have surely turned their rage toward mount Pella where all the Christians had fled nearby.
JONATHAN: I am not sure why the inadequate KJV translation of this verse is being used here except that it sounds more “end of the worldish” to say “no flesh would be saved..” Modern accurate translations read “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive..” Yes, if the Romans hadn’t stopped killing at the point of having 93,000 Jewish prisoners left, then they would have surely turned their rage toward mount Pella where all the Christians had fled nearby.
BARRY: For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (Mt. 24:24) Has not happened yet and did not happen prior to AD 70.
JONATHAN: The first century Jewish historian Josephus records 120 false messiahs that arose during the period of 30-70AD. This is not to be dismissed by a wave of the hand. It actually did happen and was fulfilled.
BARRY: Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (Mt. 24:29) This did not happen in AD 70 and has not happened yet.
JONATHAN: There is a lot to understand hear, but the main difference between Barry and I when it comes to this topic is our method of study. I am taking the Historical-Contextual approach, meaning, “What was Jesus aiming for His listeners to understand, and what would His listeners have understood.” Barry is using a flat-literal method “It says what is means and it means what it says. If I think stars falling from heaven is literal, then we better ask NASA to tell us when that is beginning to happen.”
To the first century Jewish listeners, “signs in the sky” was a figure of speech from the Old Testament, apocalyptic language referring to the destruction of a government or city. Scholar John Forster confirms this:
In ancient Hieroglyphic writings the sun, moon, and stars represented empires and states, with their sovereigns and nobility.The eclipse of these luminaries was said to denote temporary national disasters, or an entire overthrow of any state. This is still an Eastern mode of writing, and there are some classical examples of it.The Prophets frequently employ it, so that their style seems to be a speaking hieroglyphic.Thus Isaiah describes the destruction of Babylon, and Ezekiel that of Egypt.31
The scholar Gary DeMar also illustrates this pattern of Hebrew imagery, starting in Genesis with the creation story and Joseph’s dream:
The first chapter of Genesis gives us a clue as to why the Bible compares the sun, moon, and stars to rulers and their kingdoms: The sun (“greater light”) and the moon (“lesser light”) are said to “govern the day” and “night” (Gen. 1:16). Can we find examples of the sun and moon being used as symbols of government? In a dream Joseph saw “the sun and moon and eleven stars... bowing down” to him (Gen. 37:9). The sun, moon, and stars represented Joseph’s father, mother, and brothers. Joseph, being only “seventeen years old” (Gen. 37:2), was under the government of his father, mother, and older brothers. In reality, they ruled over Joseph. Upon hearing about Joseph’s dream, Jacob asked him, “What is this dream that you have had? Shall I and your mother and your brothers actually come to bow ourselves down before you to the ground?” (Gen. 37:10). Joseph’s father and brothers immediately understood the significance of the images in his dream. They were not looking for the sun, moon, and stars to bow down before Joseph.
Not surprisingly, the Old Testament has multiple examples of cities receiving prophecies of their destruction using terms related to heavenly bodies.To Egypt, Ezekiel prophesied:
When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you; I will bring darkness over your land, declares the Sovereign LORD (Ezekiel 32:7–8).
Isaiah prophesied Edom’s coming destruction using similar metaphors:
All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed (Isaiah 34:4–5).
Both Isaiah and Amos foretold Babylon’s destruction in heavenly terms:
The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light (Isaiah 13:10).
“In that day,” declares the Sovereign LORD, “I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight (Amos 8:9).
Habakkuk 3, which is about Babylon coming to destroy Israel, also uses the same sort of imagery. Also, it is typical in biblical language to represent the people of Israel as stars (see Gen. 22:17; 26:4; Deut. 1:10). In these passages, we find overwhelming proof that celestial imagery—“signs in the sky”—often foretold the destruction of a city or nation. Thus, in Matthew 24:29, Jesus’ listeners would have known He was speaking in Old Testament symbolism about the destruction of Jerusalem, not the end of the world.
JONATHAN: There is a lot to understand hear, but the main difference between Barry and I when it comes to this topic is our method of study. I am taking the Historical-Contextual approach, meaning, “What was Jesus aiming for His listeners to understand, and what would His listeners have understood.” Barry is using a flat-literal method “It says what is means and it means what it says. If I think stars falling from heaven is literal, then we better ask NASA to tell us when that is beginning to happen.”
To the first century Jewish listeners, “signs in the sky” was a figure of speech from the Old Testament, apocalyptic language referring to the destruction of a government or city. Scholar John Forster confirms this:
In ancient Hieroglyphic writings the sun, moon, and stars represented empires and states, with their sovereigns and nobility.The eclipse of these luminaries was said to denote temporary national disasters, or an entire overthrow of any state. This is still an Eastern mode of writing, and there are some classical examples of it.The Prophets frequently employ it, so that their style seems to be a speaking hieroglyphic.Thus Isaiah describes the destruction of Babylon, and Ezekiel that of Egypt.31
The scholar Gary DeMar also illustrates this pattern of Hebrew imagery, starting in Genesis with the creation story and Joseph’s dream:
The first chapter of Genesis gives us a clue as to why the Bible compares the sun, moon, and stars to rulers and their kingdoms: The sun (“greater light”) and the moon (“lesser light”) are said to “govern the day” and “night” (Gen. 1:16). Can we find examples of the sun and moon being used as symbols of government? In a dream Joseph saw “the sun and moon and eleven stars... bowing down” to him (Gen. 37:9). The sun, moon, and stars represented Joseph’s father, mother, and brothers. Joseph, being only “seventeen years old” (Gen. 37:2), was under the government of his father, mother, and older brothers. In reality, they ruled over Joseph. Upon hearing about Joseph’s dream, Jacob asked him, “What is this dream that you have had? Shall I and your mother and your brothers actually come to bow ourselves down before you to the ground?” (Gen. 37:10). Joseph’s father and brothers immediately understood the significance of the images in his dream. They were not looking for the sun, moon, and stars to bow down before Joseph.
Not surprisingly, the Old Testament has multiple examples of cities receiving prophecies of their destruction using terms related to heavenly bodies.To Egypt, Ezekiel prophesied:
When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you; I will bring darkness over your land, declares the Sovereign LORD (Ezekiel 32:7–8).
Isaiah prophesied Edom’s coming destruction using similar metaphors:
All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed (Isaiah 34:4–5).
Both Isaiah and Amos foretold Babylon’s destruction in heavenly terms:
The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light (Isaiah 13:10).
“In that day,” declares the Sovereign LORD, “I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight (Amos 8:9).
Habakkuk 3, which is about Babylon coming to destroy Israel, also uses the same sort of imagery. Also, it is typical in biblical language to represent the people of Israel as stars (see Gen. 22:17; 26:4; Deut. 1:10). In these passages, we find overwhelming proof that celestial imagery—“signs in the sky”—often foretold the destruction of a city or nation. Thus, in Matthew 24:29, Jesus’ listeners would have known He was speaking in Old Testament symbolism about the destruction of Jerusalem, not the end of the world.
BARRY: Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Mt. 24:30-31) This did not happen in AD 70.
And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near. (Luke 21:25-28) None of this happened in AD 70.
JONATHAN: Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth [the tribes of the land] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory (Matthew 24:30).
First, we must recognize that this passage does not refer to a global event. Where it says earth, the root word is ge, which means “land,” as in “the land of Israel.” This passage does not use the word kosmos, which means “the whole planet earth.” That is why many translations use the phrase “tribes of the land” (inserted above) or, at the very least, include it in the footnotes.
Second, the phrase “coming on clouds of heaven,” was a common Old Testament symbol for God coming in judgment upon ancient historical people and nations (see Ps. 18:7–15; 104:3; Isa. 19:1; Joel 2:1–2; Zeph. 1:4,15). The first century Jewish listeners would have understood this. I will discuss the “cloud comings” more in chapter 3. For now it is simply important to realize that when Jesus talked about the coming of the Son of Man, He was referring to a coming of judgment, not to His final return.
Third, the “sign of the son of man in heaven” is likely a reference to the sign we read about earlier from Josephus—the sword that hung in the sky for a year over Jerusalem before AD 70.
GATHERING THE ELECT
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other (Matthew 24:31).
Many have interpreted this to refer to the rapture, but as David Chilton explains, it actually refers to the influx of converts to Christianity:
Finally, Jesus announced, the result of Jerusalem’s destruction will be Christ’s sending forth of His “angels” to gather the elect. Isn’t this the rapture? No.The word angels simply means messengers (cf. James 2:25), regardless of whether their origin is heavenly or earthly; it is the context which determines whether these are heavenly creatures being spoken of. The word often means preachers of the Gospel (see Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24; 9:52; Revelation 1-3). In context, there is every reason to assume that Jesus is speaking of the worldwide evangelism and conversion of the nations, which will follow upon the destruction of Israel.
After the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish religious system, God began to gather people into His Kingdom from the four corners of the earth. Victorious Eschatology gives another great explanation of this verse:
As Jesus sat down on His throne, all authority was given to Him in heaven and earth. Everything changed the moment Jesus came into His kingdom. The blowing of a trumpet meant to the Jews that a royal decree was going out. And what was that decree? It was time to release angels of God to go and gather His people from every nation. At the same time, the disciples of Jesus were commissioned to go and preach the gospel, making disciples of every nation. No longer was the Jewish nation the only people allowed within a covenant relationship with God [this occurred in Acts 10]. Jesus had become the Good Shepherd who was gathering His sheep from across the world.
Further proof that this verse does not refer to the end of history is found just three verses later, where Jesus said, “This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matt. 24:34). In other words, it referred to an event within the lifetime of many of His original hearers.
Many modern Christians automatically associate the word rapture with the word gather. But this is contrary to the context. The New Testament also uses gathering in reference to the unification of Jews and gentiles, which Jesus did by His Atonement (see John 11:51–52; Eph. 2:11-22). In New Testament language, gathering most commonly refers to evangelism, to the gathering of God’s people, both Jews and gentiles, into the Kingdom of His Son. Gary DeMar confirms this interpretation of gathering by showing how the imagery in this verse alludes to the evangelization of all peoples, not just the Jews:
These messengers in Matthew 24:31 call together God’s people “from the four winds,” a reference to the four corners of the earth (Zech. 2:6; 13:29), and from one end of the sky to the other.This is a reference to the entire horizon of the world (Psalm 22:27; Deut. 4:32; Matt. 28:18–20).We should not be pressed to interpret “four winds” in a scientific fashion. “Four winds” suggests a square world, as does “four corners of the earth” or “land of Israel” (Isa. 11:12; Ezek. 7:2; Rev. 7:1; 20:8). The Bible, speaking in theological terms, depicts the earth as a house. Heaven is described in a similar fashion (John 14:2). None of this language suggests that the earth is flat or a cube, something that a wooden literalism would demand.The Bible alludes to the earth’s circularity in Isaiah 40:22:“‘It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth’–‘circle’ being the translation of the Hebrew khug, sphere.” By using this metaphor of the four winds, Jesus is telling us that the elect are gathered from everywhere, not limited to the land, or house (Matt. 15:24), of Israel (Matt. 8:11).
Clearly, when Jesus prophesied the gathering of His elect, He was not speaking of a rapture but of the spread of His Kingdom on earth, both prior to and following the destruction of Jerusalem.
And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near. (Luke 21:25-28) None of this happened in AD 70.
JONATHAN: Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth [the tribes of the land] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory (Matthew 24:30).
First, we must recognize that this passage does not refer to a global event. Where it says earth, the root word is ge, which means “land,” as in “the land of Israel.” This passage does not use the word kosmos, which means “the whole planet earth.” That is why many translations use the phrase “tribes of the land” (inserted above) or, at the very least, include it in the footnotes.
Second, the phrase “coming on clouds of heaven,” was a common Old Testament symbol for God coming in judgment upon ancient historical people and nations (see Ps. 18:7–15; 104:3; Isa. 19:1; Joel 2:1–2; Zeph. 1:4,15). The first century Jewish listeners would have understood this. I will discuss the “cloud comings” more in chapter 3. For now it is simply important to realize that when Jesus talked about the coming of the Son of Man, He was referring to a coming of judgment, not to His final return.
Third, the “sign of the son of man in heaven” is likely a reference to the sign we read about earlier from Josephus—the sword that hung in the sky for a year over Jerusalem before AD 70.
GATHERING THE ELECT
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other (Matthew 24:31).
Many have interpreted this to refer to the rapture, but as David Chilton explains, it actually refers to the influx of converts to Christianity:
Finally, Jesus announced, the result of Jerusalem’s destruction will be Christ’s sending forth of His “angels” to gather the elect. Isn’t this the rapture? No.The word angels simply means messengers (cf. James 2:25), regardless of whether their origin is heavenly or earthly; it is the context which determines whether these are heavenly creatures being spoken of. The word often means preachers of the Gospel (see Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24; 9:52; Revelation 1-3). In context, there is every reason to assume that Jesus is speaking of the worldwide evangelism and conversion of the nations, which will follow upon the destruction of Israel.
After the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish religious system, God began to gather people into His Kingdom from the four corners of the earth. Victorious Eschatology gives another great explanation of this verse:
As Jesus sat down on His throne, all authority was given to Him in heaven and earth. Everything changed the moment Jesus came into His kingdom. The blowing of a trumpet meant to the Jews that a royal decree was going out. And what was that decree? It was time to release angels of God to go and gather His people from every nation. At the same time, the disciples of Jesus were commissioned to go and preach the gospel, making disciples of every nation. No longer was the Jewish nation the only people allowed within a covenant relationship with God [this occurred in Acts 10]. Jesus had become the Good Shepherd who was gathering His sheep from across the world.
Further proof that this verse does not refer to the end of history is found just three verses later, where Jesus said, “This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matt. 24:34). In other words, it referred to an event within the lifetime of many of His original hearers.
Many modern Christians automatically associate the word rapture with the word gather. But this is contrary to the context. The New Testament also uses gathering in reference to the unification of Jews and gentiles, which Jesus did by His Atonement (see John 11:51–52; Eph. 2:11-22). In New Testament language, gathering most commonly refers to evangelism, to the gathering of God’s people, both Jews and gentiles, into the Kingdom of His Son. Gary DeMar confirms this interpretation of gathering by showing how the imagery in this verse alludes to the evangelization of all peoples, not just the Jews:
These messengers in Matthew 24:31 call together God’s people “from the four winds,” a reference to the four corners of the earth (Zech. 2:6; 13:29), and from one end of the sky to the other.This is a reference to the entire horizon of the world (Psalm 22:27; Deut. 4:32; Matt. 28:18–20).We should not be pressed to interpret “four winds” in a scientific fashion. “Four winds” suggests a square world, as does “four corners of the earth” or “land of Israel” (Isa. 11:12; Ezek. 7:2; Rev. 7:1; 20:8). The Bible, speaking in theological terms, depicts the earth as a house. Heaven is described in a similar fashion (John 14:2). None of this language suggests that the earth is flat or a cube, something that a wooden literalism would demand.The Bible alludes to the earth’s circularity in Isaiah 40:22:“‘It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth’–‘circle’ being the translation of the Hebrew khug, sphere.” By using this metaphor of the four winds, Jesus is telling us that the elect are gathered from everywhere, not limited to the land, or house (Matt. 15:24), of Israel (Matt. 8:11).
Clearly, when Jesus prophesied the gathering of His elect, He was not speaking of a rapture but of the spread of His Kingdom on earth, both prior to and following the destruction of Jerusalem.
BARRY: So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. (Mt. 24:33-34) ‘This generation’ is the generation that sees all of these signs. What signs? Read all that I have just copied from Matthew 24.
JONATHAN: Yes, and they did, or else Jesus was wrong about His timing and Jesus is a false prophet. Fortunately Jesus was not wrong! All of Matthew 24 happened in the first century.
JONATHAN: Yes, and they did, or else Jesus was wrong about His timing and Jesus is a false prophet. Fortunately Jesus was not wrong! All of Matthew 24 happened in the first century.
BARRY: This is brief and there is much more that can be shared to refute Preterism. Sadly this false doctrine is making inroads into the grace movement and gullible Christians are beginning to follow these teachers. Beware.
JONATHAN: The truth of Jesus being an amazing prophet who declared the judgment of the temple accurately cannot be stopped. But as Futurism is dying, it sure is noisy! I hope that I have helped clarify how a preterist would answer this slew of arguments. Remember to do your own study, don’t just “beware” because someone is trying to scare you. Study to show yourself approved. You are an adult.
+JONATHAN: The truth of Jesus being an amazing prophet who declared the judgment of the temple accurately cannot be stopped. But as Futurism is dying, it sure is noisy! I hope that I have helped clarify how a preterist would answer this slew of arguments. Remember to do your own study, don’t just “beware” because someone is trying to scare you. Study to show yourself approved. You are an adult.
For all of you all who ask me the question "How do we get caught up in the air with Jesus?",
here is what you should know.
The term "prince of the air" and "heavenly places" are super spiritualised.
They just mean the temple.
Here are a few things to learn.
1. The law was given to you by the Angels.
2. The temple was surrounded by cherubim.
They are not angels of mercies but judgment.
3. The sacrifices were offered to them not God.
That's why Paul called the Law "the worship of angels".
4. The old covenant system was as such known as
"placing us below the angels".
It happened in Mount Sinai".
5. When Jesus called the Pharisees and teachers of the Law children of the devil,
he was referring to them as messengers of the Law.
Paul uses the same expression towards people who were trying to get Christians under the Law
as people who preach doctrine of demons.
6. As such, the temple was where Satan dwelled as the prince of the air.
The "air" was the realm where the angels dwelt.
It was the Jewish temple built by Herod before AD70.
7. Jesus said that temple will be destroyed when he reveals himself to be the Messiah.
The reason is simple, when the Messiah comes, he will dwell with his people.
There will be no need for the temple anymore.
Hence when "he comes" the temple will be destroyed.
That happen in AD70.
8. As such, when Paul was describing the "air" and the principalities
he was referring not just about a spiritual realm.
He was talking about the presence of a temple which was the minister of death,
which was teaching doctrine of demons and was filled with children of Satan.
Simply put: the Law.
9. Hence when the temple was destroyed,
John says Satan and his angels were thrown into the lake of fire and tormented forever and ever.
There is no way the temple will be raised again.
Even if it was, all the records of the Levitical priesthood has been burnt.
10. So when Paul says you are "caught up in the air",
he is saying that you have taken up residency as the new temple.
Since God now dwells in you as the new temple and this covenants lasts forever,
"you will be with the Lord forever".
This is where I am now.
This is the rethinking of my theology.
I am who he says I am.
This is why I am already sitting in the "heavenly places".
- Simon Yap
+
.. what an horrific hater hell
we get, when we allow
wannabe elitists n warmongers,
to take away our voice ..
+
.... stressed dads,
cruisey dads,
feel ok;
on their celebration day .....
funday sunday .....
+
.... so cool,
every time I play it,
whilst contemplative;
that intro of the heart beating,
the transition to melancholia;
by observing the "leaders" mantra :
"life was not meant to be easy".
Swelling musical emotion;
and onto a lyric sample :
"Me, me, me, & You, you, you ....
and God knows it's not what
we would choose to do ....."
"Dark side of the moon"
is a lament of our times;
but hope is buried in there
like hidden treasure .....
+
Live Life Overwhelmed
in Theotes'
Lovingly kind opinion
and beautiful thoughts of
You .....
that is doxa.....
that's
Living in the Glory .....
+
.. what horrors
of exclusion
will be proffered
by the people
one allows to speak
into one's life;
today ..
+
.. horror hell believers
have their "god"
ready-made to
sanctify their violent ways
of dealing in
people control ..
+
..... true
worship
in
Theos
is
loving
humans .....
.. no matter
how unattractive
they seem to one .....
+
.. Sinai n Jerusalem
symbolise the
Law of moses-angels ..
..... Zion n Heavenly Jerusalem
is
Charis in Anthropos .....
..... one doesn't build it;
one and all
are it .....
"prodigal party time" .....
+
Theos
DID NOT
punish Iesous
in anger
at our sins.
Theotes
DOES NOT
punish us
because we are
born as flesh.
If
it is not in
Love, Charis and Joy .....
.. It is not in
Pater-Hurios-Pneuma ....
+
..... Iesous
in party mode:
goes to a pharisee dinner;
gets quirky
with some law concepts there .....
introduces three party parables,
as he steers,
deliberately,
for Jerusalem
to emphasise the party
he has for the cosmos
in his death.
(L14 - 15)
..... so glad I came across
Robert Capon .....
+
.. these phrases
are often used by the religious
to get punters to toe their line :
"who has bewitched you"..
"turned to his own vomit"..
"giving heed to seducing spirits"..
"doctrines of devils"..
"depart from iniquity"..
are actually referencing
a return to
the law of moses&angels,
or, form thereof,
after experiencing
the freedom from religion,
that the eugalion of charis, delivered.
sadly,
at best,
groups today,
mix the two
which effectively makes them performance & procedure based ..
+
.... "the victory" ....
isn't getting
your religious team
to win n subordinate
the others ..
it's living a fulfilled life
being loved
in
Love .....
isn't getting
your religious team
to win n subordinate
the others ..
it's living a fulfilled life
being loved
in
Love .....
+
..... Lydia by the river .....that's the "fellowship"
I would attend....
pray,sing,dance;
enjoy,eat,drink;
assist,heal,teach;
Love,Live,Laugh .....
as Theotes' siblings .....
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.... whilst "church"
remains defined by
the hierarchical
paid pastoral paradigm,
how can it be eklesia;
the word which means :
siblings
who understand their
original identity/surname.
(i.e. children of Abba Theos)
Gifting is helpful,
but not hierarchical.
Once we group on this understanding
the eugalion of charis
will become
meaningful,
relevant,
and inclusive.
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.... it's warmongers' economy;
the "super" powers
lust the "benefits" ..
tweedleLiblaw
and
tweedleLablaw
support
tweedleConlaw
and
tweedleLablaw
support
tweedleGoplaw
and
tweedleDemlaw ..
etc ..
who supply the enemies
of their enemies.
It is bereft thinking
that fails
all Theotes' children.
Vote them out.
Let nation Australia
be a follower of
Grace .....
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The term "coming in the clouds" is very much like a "coming out".
That coming out took place in the events which happened in the book of Revelation.
That coming out is fully revealed with the "making of all things new".
When the Temple was destroyed, you were made the New Temple.
That's how all things were made new.
That's how his Messiahship was revealed.
He is no longer Immanuel Christ with you.
He is Immanence.
Christ IN you.
That's how the coming in the clouds happened.
He came from heaven
and made you his heaven.
- Simon Yap
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2 Timothy 2:21 Realize your individual value and stop discrediting yourself! You are indispensable for your Master’s use; he knows exactly what he has in you; be ready for any good work! (See 2:12 If we contradict ourselves [behave unlike ourselves], he will contradict us and prove us wrong! Also 2:13 Our unbelief does not change what God believes; he cannot be untrue to himself! Traditional translations would read, “If anyone cleanses himself of these things, he would be a vessel of honor...” However, the context is clear from v 19, “to depart from iniquity” adike, unrighteoiusness which according to Paul’s revelation is my own effort to justify myself and not seeing how righteous and innocent I am by his doing! [See 1 Corinthians 1:30, Romans 1:17,18 & Romans 10:3] Thus to depart from my own way of doing it is my “cleansing”, it means like Paul says in Heb 12:2 to look away from our own efforts to get it right unto Jesus who did it right once and for all! Thus, the ‘cleansing’ and ‘departing from unrighteousness’-idea in v 19,20 is rendered, “Realize your individual value and stop discrediting yourself!”)
Mirror Bible
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“We write to taste life twice,
in the moment and in retrospect.”
― Anais Nin
+
One of the major mistakes people make is to think Jesus will return in the future for the Jews. They quote this verse to support their claims.
Luke 13:35
And I tell you, you will not see me until you say, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
What people don't get is this, it's part of a whole message.
Luke 13:33-35
Nevertheless, I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following, for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.’ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! Behold, your house is forsaken. And I tell you, you will not see me until you say, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’”
The context there is actually about the destruction of Jerusalem. When Jesus referred to "the house" he was referring to the Temple. What he is saying the Temple and Jerusalem will soon be destroyed and be replaced by him as the cornerstone of a new temple.
Verse 35 of this chapter is actually quoted from this Psalm.
Psalms 118:26
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD!
We bless you from the house of the LORD.
So when you look at the context you will see this.
Psalms 118:22-26
The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone.
This is the LORD'S doing;
it is marvelous in our eyes.
This is the day that the LORD has made;
let us rejoice and be glad in it.
Save us, we pray, O LORD!
O LORD, we pray, give us success!
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD!
We bless you from the house of the LORD.
Peter quotes this in:
1 Peter 2:4-5
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
This spiritual "house" is the new temple made up of believers in the Lord.
So this is not some reference in the distance future but something which happened in AD70 where the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed and replaced by the believers as the new house of God.
-Simon Yap
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"We need to look beyond the law
to deal with violence against women
and we need to dismantle traditional gender roles and stereotypes."
- Governor Kate Warner
+
.. our "leaders" need leading ..
& we should be allowed to
in these secure enough,
www times ....
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Many think that worship is about lifting hands while singing songs.
But look ...
Romans 12:1
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
The rest of the chapter explains this one verse and ...
Tells us that ...
Worship is about presenting our lives daily to God in the way we treat others here on earth!
New Covenant worship is about loving other human beings - Gods children.
- Santo Carlarco
+
