that sower & the seed parable; it don't need no explanation .... !!

[Bliss from Robert Capon.]

... a farmer whose scattered seed falls into 4 situations....
He is obviously talking about agriculture,
but He gives no clue of other subjects.

Pressed by the disciples He says Kingdom is involved.
He then says:

"... it has been given to you to know the secrets,
(ta mysteria - hidden things; the unobservable workings)

.... if you get this you will get more out of me,
if you don't, what you thought you understand
will be even less understood ....

.... if you grasp the fact that the kingdom, works in a mystery,
then that will unlock more secrets to you ....

"How hard is it for the rich to enter into the kingdom"-
is not a judgement on the rich but a lamentable observation
on humans complicating their lives by going after possessions.

.... those that get a grip of the mystery
will see that Jesus is the mystery,
and the cross/resurrection will be understandable.

.... He is not tricking people into mis-understanding
by speaking in parables but a sad observation
on the motivations of mankind.

.... so why did Jesus even give an "explanation" ....
He does not simplify it, He gives it even more complexities ....

The sower sows the word of God.
(what is that saying to you, who is the sower?)

After ruling out ourselves,
we might say Jesus is the sower.
But we understand Jesus to be The Word made flesh.
So Jesus is the Seed
The sower is Father God.

So Father God has sown the Seed through out the world.
The field is the world.

Do christians, even today, believe this?
No, they think it doesn't get there until they bring the Seed
But Jesus says Father God has sown the seed everywhere.
So all we have to bring to nations is the liberating news
to trust in that Mystery of the already sown seed.
Our "witnessing" and "missions" have made it hard work.

We do this, now, let alone for the past 2000 years!

Won't see, won't hear, from the parables; still is a problem!

+++

The idea of the catholicity of the kingdom -
the insistence that it is at work everywhere,
always, and for all, rather than in some places,
at some times, and for some people is an integral part
of Jesus' teaching from start to finish.

.... in His parables we start to see He is covering
the whole world ... no one is left out of His teaching.

Gotta say .....

I walked up to see an old school friend in hospital.
He is with a very controlling religious group.
He had tendon re-attached to right knee
and ligament re-attached to left knee.
We talked about Law and Grace.
We didn't get too far.
Before I left, he asked for prayer against pain in his right knee.
I asked, after a simple prayer, what the pain level was in a scale 1-10.
He said 5 now, I reckon.
We prayed more in the liberty of Jesus.
"It is 2 now."
"It should improve," I said.
"No, no, it is good now", he said.

No, winning the discussion needed here !

+++

I had an underarm deep seated pain, 2 weeks ago.
Just a little on the nauseous side to make me think
it could be lymphatic, for some reason.
I declined to believe that. Prayed the pain to go.
Next time I thought about it, the pain was no more.

Reject the negative.

+++

A young woman limped away after she served me food.
I asked her name, & what was wrong.
Carla said she had a night out some months ago,
fell and did ligament damage to her ankle.
She had been to the doctor a couple of times,
but no improvement and still had pain.
I asked her if she wanted prayer.
Whaaat? she said looking a bit unsure.
I repeated myself ... she looked uneasy but wanted to say yes.
"It's ok, Jesus loves you a lot"
"That would be hard for Him."
She came closer to me across the counter.
"Well, it's not hard for Him - He Loves you
and He wants to make you His princess."
Even though she didn't want to accept this about herself,
I could see Holy Spirit had changed her demeanour.
"What pain level is it?"
"It can be worse, but maybe about 6"
I prayed short.
"How is it?"
"3" - You could see her face change from skepticism
to "something is really happening here".
"Make sure you don't think of Jesus as religious,
think of Him as your best friend."
Prayed again.
She was trying a few things to get the pain back !
"Should you go for a walk to test it?"
"No, it pains the most if I stand like this."
There was a joy on her face now. "The pain is gone."
"The ligament problem will be cleared at the end of the week."
I've realised, just now, that is in 3 days time.

Jesus demonstrating His Love for Carla.

+++

A few days ago, I had a gut pain, maybe bad fish.
Told it to clear up, it did.

2 days ago I felt a snotty cold coming on.
I parayed as I touched my sinus and throat.
No cold, kept surfing.

Thankyou, Thankyou, Jesus,
for blessing through me.
It is such a high !
+
+
+

Party with the children; party with the outcast .....

wall photo : New Mystics (Facebook)

Son of man is from Earth not Krypton ...

... the devil does strike us as having all the best lines.
What he says makes sense to our inverterately
[(of a feeling or habit) long-established and unlikely to change]
right handed souls.

[into which Jesus says]

You can't conceive of a messiah
unless he's dedicated to a lot of superhuman,
right handed punching and interfering ...

[just plain old loving our Daddy God,
will do the messianic thing].

... therefore when we talk about the development
of Jesus' messianic consciousness from
child to Holy Ghost empowering [at 30],
we should stay light years away from any suggestion
that he had a kind of trap door
between his divine and human minds -

we should avoid the humanity-destroying trick
of positing leaks from his deity into his humanity.

The influence of the Holy Spirit alone - 
acting, upon his human nature,
in no fundamentally different way
than His influence does on ours -
is quite sufficient; it covers all biblical bases;
it provides for all the divine "informing"
we ever need to speak of;
and it does so without turning Jesus into Superman.

Indeed the superman analogy is a perfect illustration of
what he is not -
He is not from another planet but from this one.
He does not have in his human nature
powers beyond those of mortal man,
instead, he is just as mortal as we are.

[He shows this with his responses
to the devil's temptations -
He could have used messianic responses from scripture
but he chose the ones we were familiar with.]

Robert Farrar Capon

+++

A Simple Life .....

I wouldn’t bother your head by such things 
as “sins of the fathers”, 

nor even about “spiritual warfare”. 

Life is so simple when it is only and always 
just HE as me. 

You ARE Christ in your form, 
and then all that comes to you, 

like your husband losing his job, 
has come to Christ as you. 

So you are right when you say life
is just constant good practice 

in recognising and often ‘feeling’ the dark, 

but then, not fighting it, 

(that’s the danger of “spiritual warfare”, 

for He finished that battle at Calvary), 

and so while we recognise those outer assaults 

on our emotional-soul life, 

we then say, 

“That’s not me. 

That’s Satan getting at me to respond 

as if I am an independent me. 

But I’m NOT. 

I’m Christ as me, and HE is perfect”.

Norman P. Grubb

Norman P. Grubb... an intro

True Seeing

John is beyond me; 

I don’t know what we are to do with John. 

Put him out, I guess. 

John corners, completely corners us, 

because he four times over says: 

..... we are now to be exactly as Jesus is. 

What are we to make of that? 

Not much sinful imperfection 
about that one is there? 

It says in the first chapter twice over , 

“we are to walk in the light as He is in the light,"

1Jo1:7

That is absolute light. 

In the second chapter, 

“Whosoever says he abides in Him 

ought himself so to walk even as he walked,” 

1Jo2:6

exactly as Jesus walked on earth.  

1Jo3:7 says: 

“He that does righteousness is righteous 

even as He is righteous,” 

and it says also, 

“whosoever hath this hope in him 

purifieth himself even as He is pure.” 

1Jo3:3.

Righteous as He is righteous; 

pure as He is pure; 

in the light as He is in the light; 

walking as He walks. 

And the fourth one is beyond all—

it is linked with perfect love. 

That’s where John comes to perfection. 

He says in 1Jo4:17: 

“Herein is our love made perfect;” 

not, “ought to be,” or “might be,” but 

“Herein is our love made perfect, 

that we may have boldness in the day of judgment.” 

And he goes on to the statement I’m getting at 

(the end of that verse), 

“because as He is”—

not even as He was on earth, but as He is now, 

that Perfect One, seated in all His glory 

at the right hand of the Majesty on high—

“As he is, so are we.” 

What do you think of that one?

Karuizawa Japan Conference of 1954

Topic: “Going on to Perfection”

What saves us is Jesus .....

"Theology,
despite the homicidal urgency christians attach to it,
is yet to save anybody."

What saves us is Jesus, and faith He saved us.
This trust first starts with simply saying ... yes .... to Him.

Our very faintest ... "uh-huh" ..... to His Mystery in us.

..... His Revelation ..... stirring in us.

The theological structures and formulation get in the way.
Moving us from the Spirit back to the mind.

The repertoire of good works entangles us in the physical.

+++++

It's just:

"Uh-uh ... Jesus....."

"I am crucified with You.

I am buried with You.

I am raised with You.

I am new in You."

+++++

Trusting Jesus, ... in what looks for all the world like weakness,
intervention ... that seems indistinguishable from non-intervention.
Paradoxical power ... that is guided by intuition and imagination.

[affirming simplicity with R.F. Capon]

+++++

[for the theologians,
i encourage going after everything Jesus has for us,
it happens in receptive times, without fear.]

Images are so illuminating .....

+++

The Bible is not a manual of theology,
nor a manual of ethics or philosophical views.

Scripture is held together by images.
Images that develop to capture our imagination.

+++

That samaritan story is not a story to make us, not, be like the religious priest, 
the legalist Levite or the violent robbers, and get us to love victims.

The beat up guy is us, left for dead by religion and the law.

Importantly for us, we can’t do a thing to save ourselves,
so The Outcast One is the one who Loves us totally.

In our given up state, he pours in the life and the celebration.

(enjoying the parables with Robert Capon)

a cautionary tale .....

I've heard said, someone who has been through one revival,
will not be involved in a second one !

The theory is, that person will, for the rest of their life,
try to replicate what happened in that move of The Spirit.

I am not sure, if what I was involved in, in the late 1970s
through to the mid 1980s was a revival or a move of The Spirit.
There will be people with a better knowledge and memory than mine
on the events, but this post is one of broad strokes, rather than specifics.

I went to an Anglican sunday school irregularly;
to church with my mother, only occasionally, through primary school;
christened at ~6 years old, confirmed at ~12 years and
an altar boy for a few months, then, very dis-interested until ~25.

School was easy until I was ~15.
I started drinking, smoking and challenging authority about then.

I was drawn when a friend told me about this experience with God.
I wasn't drawn to the people, the doctrine,
only to an experience with The Spirit.

Baby Boomers were experiencing the Baptism of the Spirit
throughout Australia in a rapidly expanding network of this group.
People were coming out of confused lives.
Heroin addicts, alcoholics, and other addictions were being freed.

Healings were happening.
Excitement in a new empowered lifestyle became reality.
The group relied on an organised hierarchical system
more like a military system.
Pastoral elitism and nepotism were common.

We knew little of this, Holy Spirit was filling people
and the expected speaking in a new language
followed. We were full of expectation and confidence.

The group was quick to get us in order
and soon lowered our expectation for the miraculous.
Newly appointed pastors from the group were very proud
when their group expanded. They took a lot of personal credit.

Holy Spirit just spoke through us, and more seemed to happen
when we had fun away from the highly ordered meetings.

The yearly convention expanded in numbers, filling theatres,
then City Halls then larger indoor sports stadiums.
There was much kudos if the groups had moved from renting
in their respective cities and built or bought a hall.

There were a series of miraculous healings.
My 10 month old son was one of them.
(a story i will post at another time).

The group was quick to reinforce that all the above was happening
because of their superior doctrine.
We were told that nobody is saved
unless they were full water baptised
and had the "evidence" of speaking in tongues.

I was excited by all the blessing I received in the first four to five years.
It was like we had the key to people knowing God.
I was involved in breakthroughs in the church.
Though with more order and doctrine,
there seemed to be less happening spiritually.

From a peak of numbers in our group in the mid to late 1980's,
everything started to decline.
We became highly religious and judgmental of others and ourselves.
Pastors were always playing a political game at their conventions.
There was always "some problem" that needed to be stamped out.
The New Testament was interpreted harshly.
People became bitter and resentful.

The ones that left the group were said to be backslidden.
Even pruned from the vine !!
The group liked "putting people out" for differing lengths of time,
depending upon the seriousness of their "crime"!!

The ones that stayed became more disillusioned but hoped
that they might be able to usher the change needed
to bring more than a shallow joy.
Prayer meetings, fasting days, home help groups,
dinner nights, big plays, small plays, musical outreaches,
beach camps, easter camps, bush camps
and special study groups, never brought Holy Spirit
to that intensity we had experienced in the early 1980s.
The politics, divisions, unhappiness and anger increased;
now thankfully,
most people have left that group in my town.

When I left, the intensity of the Spirit had returned in me.
That was so blessed, because I had seen people,
who had left disheartened,
fade under the group's curse of "back-sliddeness".

I have sought out Loved five fold ministers and found them.
The Spirit of Jesus is teaching me the centrality of His Grace.
I think I will see a sustained non-religious revival.
I want to share this one, as playful
loved children of Abba God.

Yes.
+
+
+

the most affirming Robert Farrar Capon .......

The Mystery of Christ.

The Mystery of the incarnation of the Word of God.
The Mystery of the Eternal Son.
The Mystery of the Holy and Undivided Trinity.

The Mystery of Christ is to be believed not intellectualised.
The Mystery of Christ has been revealed:
when Jesus of Nazareth walked this Earth;
by the Presence of the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ.

The Mystery of Christ is not the property of the church;
The Mystery of Christ is not confined to the church;
The Mystery of Christ is not a localised phenomenon.
The Mystery of Christ is not confined to a transactional response.

The Mystery of Christ is far more
than a metaphysical truth (or mystical perception).
The Mystery of Christ is the action of
the Mystery making a New Creation in, through, and for us.
The Mystery of Christ is the Presence of Someone
who is there for us regardless of what we believe, think, or feel.

The Mystery of Jesus Christ is above debate.
The Mystery of Jesus Christ is our life.
The Mystery of Jesus Christ holds the worlds together.
The Mystery of Jesus Christ is the Joy of all our Desiring.

... as I have loved you .....

I saw a wall photo on facebook that made me laugh out loud.

A lot of the "Jesus" cartoons seem a bit smug to be worthwhile.

This one brings an important aspect of :
I'm a christian,
I understand His Love,
I understand His Grace,

ahh .... except in this case,
where it should be outlawed !!

It shows a "Jesus character" on a rock
speaking to a group of "disciple characters".
The artist has the scene quite sharp and a little surreal.

++++

The "Jesus character" says :

"OK, Here's the new thing,
I have Loved you;
now, you can go and Love others 
as I have Loved you.
Make sure you take care of them,
and don't judge them."

A "disciple character" replies :

"But what if they are gay,
or worship other gods?"

The "Jesus character" apologises :

"Did I - f@#$%!) - stutter."

++++

Of course there was a lot of discussion being distracted by
the "Jesus character" swearing, so missing the central understanding.

There were also those disputing that gays would be loved!

The second idea is so much more repugnant than the first.

++++

Now here is a brief discussion.

I live in a democracy (so much better than a dictatorship).
If I feel strongly about something that will be good, or bad for society,
I can vote or influence that something into our governance.
If it gets up well and good.
If it doesn't, it is still, well and good.
That is because I believe Jesus is always
doing a better thing for fallen mankind,
i.e. Us !

Jesus is always doing a better thing for :
the gay man or woman,
the white collar criminal,
the man or woman in adultery,
the tax cheat,
the violent criminal,
the self-righteous preacher,
the multiple partner guru,
the fornicating youth,
the pederast,
the serial killer,
the backbiter, ......

can I stop now ?
we have the idea ?

Do we find lasting happiness in :
more money,
more sexual gratification,
more power,
more cleverness,
being the parent figure,
being married (gay or straight), ......

can I stop now ?

we have the idea ?

Jesus is always showing us :
how Loved and Beautiful we are to Him.
(He has fully paid the Eternal consequence of our failures.
Horrifically ..... on the cross.)

True Love is our central search.

Until we start seeking to understand
how Loved and Graced,
we are by Daddy God,
we will not be happy.

The Godhead sings over us with Joy.
(right now, this second, minute, hour ..... )

+++++++

for those wanting to view the image,
you will find the image on this spacey site !

http://facebook.com/hummingkurt

++++++

Settled righteous and saved by Jesus in His Grace for ALL the world,
(that was said quickly but it is Powerful and True),
our attention is now drawn to the consequences of sin on Earth,
not on the consequences of sin on our salvation.

If we want healthy, happy, joyful, fruitful, lovely, peaceful, fulfilled, long lives
on Earth, there are joy ways that lead there, and ways that lead to a lesser life.
We know this is true for eating and exercise.
It is also true of other parts of our lifestyles.

Not retaining the knowledge of the Love of Jesus (a blissing)
leads to other  activities that can have negative consequences,
after an initial joy.
Most of these activities are blessed when in context, (e.g. sex; alcohol)
but lead to oppression, brought by the accuser, when not.

Of course the religious have more patience with murderers than homosexuals!
Homosexuals that believe are saved. Murderers that believe are saved.
Our sin is not carried to Heaven.
Let's look at what Romans 1 actually says.

It seemed like God abandoned mankind to be swept along by the lusts of their own hearts to abuse and defile themselves.              [only "seemed" ... & ALL mankind]

Instead of embracing their Maker as their true identity they preferred the deception of a warped identity,             [=consequence]  religiously giving it their affection and devotion.

By being confused about their Maker they became confused about themselves;   [=consequence of lost identity] women became snared in a passion for one another. [=a manifestation of consequence]

Likewise the men became inflamed with an unnatural attraction to men; even their personalities changed in consequence to [making their bodies female genitalia for each other].

And since [all mankind] no longer honored or acknowledged God in their thoughts, [all mankind] failed to see anything wrong with what they were doing.

................... [long list of what they were doing] ...................

It just doesn't make any sense, they started off knowing the righteousness of God,   [believers]  yet by their deeds they clearly prefer death;             [consequence=shorter life] it is almost as if sin has become a fashionable contest.

A presumed knowledge of that which is right or wrong does not qualify you to judge anyone.

No man is another man’s judge.

No-one can afford to get the wrong idea about God’s goodness; he hates sin but loves man! The wealth of his benevolence and his resolute refusal to let go of us in his patient passion is to shepherd everyone into a radical change of mind.

+++++

Full acceptance in His party, right now

quotes and inspiration from :
"Mystery of Christ and why we don’t get it" - Robert Farrar Capon

+

..... the only thing that will leave me with problems

is my non-acceptance of his FULL acceptance,

of me into his party of Joy .....

some parables on full acceptance :
The Prodigal Father. (L15)
The Talents (L19)
The Virgins (M25)
The Wedding Banquet (M22)

One Lost Sheep (L15)


+

“He is trying to tell us that there is a party already going on

despite our works,

and that if we only trust,

we’ll realize we’re already okay…..

He’s not into moral theology, he’s into party theology.

He’s not talking about works that can be rewarded or punished;

He’s talking about faith in something already in full swing.”

+

‎"... these concepts that portray God as an angry , hard to please parent , 

and his church as a domineering grown-up issuing threats to willful kids - 

is bad news - not Gospel 

.... lead not to liberty ... to which Christ set us free ... 

but to a servile mentality that kills courage and breeds resentment." 

+

"The fallen world already imposes enough invidious divisions on us;
we don't need to add another one
that sorts us into spiritual hotshots
who've paid a lot for their grace
and spiritual louts who've cheated on the price.
As I've said several times now,
Grace has no price - it is free."

+

".. hell is a condition of a totally non-congruent response to Grace,
a choosing of one's own, nonexistent version of "reality" over
God's freely given, reconciled reality."


+


"The Mystery of Christ is operative in us whether we know it or not,
or whether we get a proper handle on it or not.
The power of Jesus death and resurrection 
makes a New Creation of the whole world;
after that, any response we may make to it is distinctly secondary - 
and if that response is an inconvenience to anybody,
at most it's only an inconvenience to ourselves."


+


It's like a dance - 
a big formal party that everybody is already invited to and present at.
Now what happens at a dance ? 
When the band starts to play almost everybody decides 
to trust the 'new world' of the dance ...


... the dance of the Mystery of Christ - is always going on ....
The music of the Mystery is hidden music ...
we dance, in trust, in it ....


+


... this quest for the "history behind the history" ....
to provide a way around certain perceived difficulties with biblical literalism ...
is itself [flawed] because there is nothing original ...
Jesus spoke in Aramaic and we read translations from the 'original Greek' ...


Even if we had everything original, 
we still need to decide to believe in The Word Incarnate,
then allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the cosmic Mystery of Christ ...
... Those propositions can be arrived at only 
on the basis of trust in Jesus, not evidence; ... 


+


Works are always productions, operations, acts of making or doing;
they invariably call for knowledge on our part of what needs to be done
and capacity on our part, to do it.


Faith, by contrast, is an activity of trusting somebody else's knowledge
and capacity to accomplish something we couldn't manage -
and in the case of faith in the Mystery of the Incarnation,
of trusting God to accomplish it in a way
that looks for all the world like doing nothing whatsoever.


+


Krisis (grk) = judgement; similar to crisis.
In a crisis, it is hope for a favourable outcome from a decision.
The judgement is not condemnation.
In the judgment parables,
The "God" character effectively declares the human character's innocence.
The final outcome of the "human" character is not based what they did,
but what they believed.


+


Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
God forbid!
God forbid is actually "me genoito' = won't happen.
Grace can't be anymore bountiful, whether there are sins or not.


+


"Mystery of Christ and why we don’t get it" - Robert Farrar Capon


+

Worship induced envisioning .....

During song worship today, Holy Spirit had some fun with me.

The song leader and band played "His train filled the Temple".
He invited us to close our eyes and envision this.
I couldn't get a picture of it so I just let my mind envision what it wanted to.

Soon, I saw a cliffed hill silhouetted from behind by a golden red glow.
I thought it might be the sun rising.
To the the darker left and right of the cliff I saw two unlit crosses.
The top of the hill started becoming intensely bright.
An intensely white cross materialised from that brightness.
I enjoyed this a lot.

As I looked, a magnificent lion's head with mane
appeared below the right arm of the cross.
He was happy, his mane was so full and long.
It streamed across to below the left arm of the cross.

I was then, above, behind and to the left of him.
He was laughing as he walked on the clouds.
I did not see them, but I sensed many, many people were following him.

Then, I was looking straight at the lion's face.
The darker parts of his nose and brow produced a cross.

Then he was on a raised stage with golden light behind him.
He was truly regal as he paced across the stage.
He was happy and speaking.
As he spoke, distorted rings came from his mouth.
Rings of mellow fire, that started caressing the audience.
The audience caught fire with a warm glow that became more intense.

A fiery lion's face and mane then appeared right in front of me.
He had a very happy, but a cheeky look about him.
He spun his head clockwise but his right eye remained stationary,
which distorted everything.
My reaction was to think he was being just too weird !
Then his eye caught up with his face,
but his face, now, was distorted, as well !
It spun and disappeared then reformed.
He kept distorting, spinning, disappearing, and reappearing,
until I was laughing with him.

The song stopped but the Joy remained with me.

Hahahe ...
I'm glad this happened to me because the speaker was very religious !

This Kony thing .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRWve1dr2JI

a 2 minute excerpt from "Blood Diamond"(great movie)

Now, what if this was Kony as a boy.
(i don't know his bio but i assume he was brutalised, as a boy, too),

As spiritual dads/mums we can speak this into the conflicted:

you ARE a good boy/girl.....man/woman .....
you ARE accepted ; no matter what your past .....
This is the Grace Who IS Jesus ..... for you .....

But more importantly,
if it was actually the murderous Kony ....
could I say this ..... convinced of Jesus' Love for Kony ?

+++

Jesus is the Fulfillment of the Tithe .....

In this freedom I stand :
ALL Believers in the Gospel of Grace are Kings and Priests.

I know preachers, I respect them,
that have made a special category
for the law of tithing.

(yes, i know about Abraham's
and Jacob's occasional tithing
before the law of Moses was enacted).

I recently tweeted :
"Circumcision is before the Mosaic law; 
it is NOT part of gospel of grace 
and neither is tithing! 
Love Offering for specific costs 
and "charity" is part of being loving,
funding a religious industry is not." (tweet expanded ... haha)

I hope this (special law category) is just an interim in groups
in the progression to Freedom in the Gospel of Grace.

To be manipulated to give money,
takes away from the Gospel.

Hearing words like:

"Give and it shall be given to you ..."
"God loves a cheerful giver ..."
"bring in your tithe to open blessing from Heaven ... "
"plant your seed and you shall be blessed a hundred-fold ... "

in relation to tithing your money, etc,
only brings a burden, an expectation, and a fear
that I am doing the wrong thing by not tithing.
(usually, the words are used out of context, anyway).

Jesus IS Perfect Love, He casts out ALL fear (and performance).

Now to contribute to the cost of presenting the Gospel of Grace,
is an Inspired act of generosity and love,
as is contributing to a relief project.
As most say, this usually works out to be more than 10%
but it still allows for less than 10% !

+++++

an interesting Facebook discussion initiated by Bertie Brits posting :

I Gave a teaching on tithing tonight and really enjoyed it... 
Jesus is the tithe, 
let us eat His flesh, for His flesh is the meat that came to the storehouse for our freedom from the curse. 
Some say I am going to preach myself financially bankrupt if I continue this way ... haha

Mark Boyce : Jesus is the first born from among the dead - 
the first fruit of everything pertaining to life. He is the true tithe.

‎Arne Aabn : "1st" fruit. tithe is 1 in 1/10.

Mark Boyce : The first fruit of "everything" is the tithe. 
Also, the Levitical priesthood was done away with at the cross. 
We are now the royal priesthood and we eat and drink the tithe - Jesus.

Bertie Brits : Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the prophets. 
How does that apply to prophet Mal. 
and the tithe mentioned as that which will come to take the curse away?
would you say Jesus is the scapegoat? 
If you say yes give NT scripture please. 
Without using the aleph Tuv and just the prophetic word in mal3:1 
and onwards to the end you can prove it. 
Remember Ps40. Jesus said God had no delight is sacrifice and offerings. 
(the context is the law and what they had to do for God) 
but He said in Ps 40 and HEB it was all written about Him. 
Simply ask Jesus if His works on the cross could fulfill that which is promised 
when you tithe according to Mal 3 and see what His hands, side and love can convince you of.

Gary Knoetze : if Jesus is the Sabbath Rest, 
if He is the Seed that God sowed, 
if He is the firstfruit, 
if He is the Lamb, 
if He is the fullfilment of the types and shadows, 
then why isn't he the tithe?

Walker Shurz : Other "grace preachers" that I have heard -- 
Andrew Wommack, Ed Elliott, Jim Richards, Joseph Prince and Allen Speegle 
unanimously agree that the tithe is 10% of our money given into the kingdom and work of God.

Bertie Brits : Most (not all but most) churches I have been teaching this message 
at the people have more joy in their giving and the giving radically increased. 
(not that that would be the reason for preaching it, 
if they stopped to give or gave less it would not stop me preaching this. 
We cannot preach for money from the people). 
One of AWME schools told me after I preached there they had the highest giving in the history of the school. 
I don't want to sound arrogant for I am not in my heart 
but believe we all can learn, even these great preachers, 
that I respect with all my heart and that has only been good to me. 
truly the tithe was something you are in remembrance of God 
as well as food for those who could not provide by their own works. . Duet 14:22-24

Bill Watts : Thank you for taking a stand for the truth Bertie. 
The biggest enemy to grace is not the law but partial grace. 
I don't understand how some of these folks preach so strongly against mixing grace and law 
but then compromise on the tithe due to fear of man and lack of trust in God to provide for them.

Bertie Brits : Is it impossible for Jesus to be the meat that came to the people 
that could remove the curse and cause us to be called blessed? 
Just read Mal 3 as prophetic word to be fulfilled by Jesus. 
If you don't agree what can I say? 
You are just missing out on a wonderful part of freedom to be offered to people who live in guilt when they don't TITHE. O my goodness, to think that their are people believing that if you don't give 10% you stealing from God. 
My prayer is that God open the platforms of the world for the message of JESUS IS THE TITHE.

Tithe was what they ate in remembrance of God - how clear do you want it? Deut 14

San Burke : Simply put, Jesus is the fulfillment of every requirement under the law. 
This is the gift of Grace!

+++++