His Eternal Now .....

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Peter ! - Give up your sword .. for .....

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other "before the law" things : ..

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image from charisma ministries on facebook

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.. slicing and dicing !!

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tithing - wallphoto

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(image from Charisma Ministries on facebook)

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I don't make, and I don't intend to make, money out of my viewpoints.
This keeps me independent from
popular, acceptable, influences
and directives from groups.
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..... "Grace is my Embrace" .....
I give into some projects that I feel might be grace focussed.
I have no problems giving money to groups, for the costs of my attendance.
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the addiction of groups to money collection
is a red light warning to me of a religious controlling spirit ..
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too funny .. someone commented on this wallphoto .. :
"tithing was before the law" as a way of excusing tithing, so,
the next post wallphoto in my blog was put up .....
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Time to review some Eschatology ?

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This is only a starting place.
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I haven't thought this through, in a revelation of Grace, yet.
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Before having anymore revelation and study, 
generally, I think that when Christ returns,
the eklesia (the ones He identifies within His Body)
will be raised to meet Jesus as He returns in His resurrection body
to take dominion on Earth, probably from geographic Jerusalem.
This "rapture" happens within big tribulation on Earth. 
(i.e. it could be most anytime !!)

Non-eklesia will still have mortal bodies and live 
on a prosperous and peaceful Earth 
for a 1000 years (millennium).

Rebellion is an option at the end of this time.
Subsequently, rebellion is annihilated. 

Righteous judgement time for the non-eklesia. 

New Jerusalem is established in a New Earth.
Enter the Ages of the Ages; 
which is Theiotes' Original Loving Intent for us ALL.

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so here are some Dogmas and Terminology:



Diagrams and discussion from Grace Institute
http://www.gcfweb.org/institute/theology/eschatology-2.php

Daniel's 70th week discusses "the prince" 
who will set up the abomination of desolation.
Jesus refers to Daniel's prophecy, 
calling this time the "Great Tribulation."
This seems to correlate with Paul's "man of lawlessness" 
and John's "beast" seems to have similar characteristics to Daniel's prince. 
This is known as the Great Tribulation. 
Following the Tribulation comes a time, 
known as the Millennium, 
where Christ rules as King.

Preterist Views

The Preterist view states that the events of the tribulation 

were fulfilled in AD 70 when Rome destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. 

"this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" (M24)

Most preterists see the millennium being fulfilled by church spiritually 

in the age of the church see Amillenialism (diagram below).

Daniel's chronology would seem to indicate the 70th week 

closely follows the cutting off of the Messiah.(D9)

but Jesus indicates that the Second Coming 

would follow closely behind the tribulation, 

but it also states that the Second Coming would be obvious to all.

Most scriptures do not show any interval 

between the return of the Christ and the judgment, 

which is literal interpretation of the Millennium.(pre-millenialism)

There seems to be an immediate fulfillment 

reflected in the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, 

there are a number of predicted elements that have not happened yet. 

This suggests a yet future, more complete fulfillment.

Amillenialism

Amillennialists do not believe in a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ with Israel. 

The church has replaced Israel and is now inheriting the promises of Israel.

The millennium is being fulfilled symbolically 

by Christ's reign over the church in this present age.

The tribulation is seen to have already been fulfilled either 

in the destruction of the temple (preterism) 

or in the struggles of the church throughout history.

This is the predominant viewpoint in "christianity". 

It was first articulated by Augustine,

(the viewpoint of Roman Catholics and the reformed church.)

The viewpoint is largely an outgrowth of Replacement Theology. 

The New Testament affirms that the kingdom of God 

was ushered in with Christ's first advent 

and is continuing through the Church today.

"The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 

nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is' or, ‘There it is!' 

For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.(within you)”(L17)

Also note, the book of Revelation uses many numeric symbols, 

and the number 1,000 may mean merely “a really long time.”

Post-Millenialism 

Postmillennialism believes that the Church (??)

will bring about the millennium 

prior to the return of Christ. 

As the Church works to accomplish its mission (??) 

to bring the world to Christ 

and thereby brings about social justice and peace, 

the Church will create the millennial reign of Christ (??), 

after which Christ will return. 

The Tribulation is seen to have already been fulfilled 

either in the destruction of the temple (preterism) 

or in the struggles of the church throughout history.

This was a popular viewpoint in the early 20th century 

as the Church was refocused on missionary work and social action, 

and technology was making impact on eliminating disease. 

This viewpoint all but died out with two world wars and a great depression.

The scripture does indicate that the kingdom of God 
will continue to grow 
and eventually transform the entire world (Mt13:31-33), 
and that the Church will continue to be built 
and not be overcome by Satan (Mt16:18).


Pre-millennialist

Premillennialist believe that the millennium 
is the literal reign of Christ with Israel (??) 
over all the earth.
This is distinct from the subsequent New Heaven and New Earth, 
because both believers and unbelievers will live in this new era. 

The Church will have already been resurrected  (+++)
and will reign with Christ at this time.

This viewpoint is the plainest interpretation of Rev20 
and matches with much of the Old Testament prophecies 
regarding the future of the nation of Israel.

Rapture

The term rapture is found only in 1Thess4, 

and for most of the Church is equated with the return of Christ. 

The debate of the timing of the rapture 

is only relevant for the pre-millennialist, 

as both amillenialism and post-millennialism 

believe that the Tribulation is already complete.

Pre-tribulation

Pretribulationalists believe that prior to the coming Great Tribulation, 

Christ will have a secret coming,

where He gathers His Church and takes them to heaven,(??) 

leaving only unbelievers to go through the tribulation. 

This removal of the Church 

signifies the return to the time of Israel as God's primary focus.(??) 

Many will be saved during the resurrection, including all of Israel.(??) 

At the end of the tribulation, Christ returns with His church, 

raises those who died in Christ during the Tribulation (??) 

and those who survived the Tribulation 

will enter the time of the Millennium in non-glorified bodies.

The pretribulational viewpoint, then, sees three resurrections: 

1) the saints raised at the rapture, 

2) the saints who died in the tribulation raised at the second coming,(??) and 

3) unbelievers raised at the end of the millennium.

There are several scriptures that indicate that believers 

will not experience the wrath of God (1Thess2:10, Rev3:10), 

which is taken to mean the Tribulation. 

In addition, after Rev3, the Church is not mentioned in the book of Revelation.

Finally, the millennium is populated by people 

who do not have glorified bodies (and actually die!). 

Mid-Tribulation

This viewpoint is very similar to pre-tribulation viewpoint, 

except that the rapture is seen to take place 

3 ½ years into the Tribulation rather than at the outset. 

There is a lot of emphasis on the second half of the Tribulation(Dan9:27), 

and there seems to be some significant events take place at the midpoint.

Post-tribulation

Post Tribulationalists believe that the rapture and the return of Christ 

are the same thing. (++) 

There is no overt indication in scripture of a secret return of Christ. 

One would have to have a preconceived theological system 

to read-in a pre-tribulational rapture into 1 Thessalonians. 

This viewpoint has been the longstanding viewpoint of the church, 

and pre-tribulationalism has only developed 

since the rise of dispensationalism in the late 19 th century.

The passages referring to the church of God 

not facing the wrath of God can just as easily 

be interpreted to mean the final judgment, 

or that God will provide divine protection for the church (++) 

in the midst of the tribulation. 

Furthermore, Jesus, in Matthew 24 seems to indicate 

that believers will go through the tribulation.

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"End Times in a nutshell" by Michael Patton 

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2012/01/the-end-times-in-a-nutshell/

Summarised in http://gthruf.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/eschatology-great-summary.html

Preterist: Belief that the event(s) (such as the tribulation) happened in the past.
Historicist: Belief that the event(s) happen throughout history.
Idealist: Belief that the event(s) are symbolic or parabolic and are always present.
Futurist: Belief that the event(s) are yet future.

Three main events in the book of Revelation:

Tribulation - Matthew 24 & Revelation 4 - 19
Millennium - Revelation 20
The Second Coming and The New Creation - Revelation 21

POSITION / EVENT	Tribulation	Millenium	Second Coming
Historic Premillenialist	H, P, [F], I	F	F
Dispensational Premillenailist	F	F	F
Amillenialist	H, P, I	I	F
Postmillenialist	H, P, F, I	H	F
Partial Preterist	P	P	F
Hyper Preterist	P	P	P*

Key:

KEY	TERM
H	Historicist
P	Preterist
F	Futurist
I	Idealist
*	Outside of the orthodox teaching of scripture

Differing positions by how they treat these three events:

Historic Premillennialist

Event #1: Tribulation: historicist, preterist, [futurist], or idealist
Event #2: Millennium: futurist
Event #3: The Second Coming and The New Creation: futurist 

Dispensational Premillennialist

Event #1: Tribulation: futurist
Event #2: Millennium: futurist
Event #3: The Second Coming and The New Creation: futurist

Amillennialist

Event #1: Tribulation: historicist, preterist, or idealist
Event #2: Millennium: idealist (normally)
Event #3: The Second Coming and The New Creation: futurist

Postmillennialist

Event #1: Tribulation: historicist, preterist, futurist, or idealist
Event #2: Millennium: historicist (normally)
Event #3: The Second Coming and The New Creation: futurist

Partial-Preterism 

(considered orthodox Christianity)

Event #1: Tribulation: preterist
Event #2: Millennium: preterist
Event #3: The Second Coming and The New Creation: futuristic
(believes Christ came in Judgement, but that this was not the 'Second coming')

Full-Preterism 

(considered heterodox by orthodox Christianity)

Event #1: Tribulation: preterist
Event #2: Millennium: preterist
Event #3: The Second Coming and The New Creation: preterist 
[this is the heresy]

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HaHE

So at this stage, i think, that puts me as a :

POSITION / EVENT	Tribulation	Millenium	Second Coming
Historic Premillenialist	H, P, [F], I	F	F

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more later, maybe
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